Police seize films from Amateur Photographer!

News Type: Event — Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:20 PM EST

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/ne ... 69825.html

Police seize films from amateur photographer

Monday 17th December 2007
Chris Cheesman

Police have seized films from an amateur photographer, accusing him of obtaining photographs of possibly sensitive material in Hull city centre.

Photo enthusiast Steve Carroll has lodged an official complaint against Humberside Police after the incident on 1 December.

Carroll said that the officers objected to him photographing 'sensitive buildings', one later adding that people had been anxious about his use of the camera.

Carroll told the officers he was entitled to take pictures in a public place.

'All the shots were of people. I took shots of people crossing the road, the Big Issue seller, two youths drinking from beer cans, people walking in the street and so on,' said Carroll who told us he was making his first attempt at 'street photography'.

He admits a few of his shots were taken candidly, adding: 'I did not take any photographs of children. I took most of the photographs openly, not trying to disguise the fact that I was photographing.'

Humberside Police seized two films containing the shots Carroll had taken. At the time of writing they had yet to return the films to the photographer.

A spokeswoman for the force told Amateur Photographer: 'Camera film was seized by Humberside Police following a complaint from members of the public about photos being taken in the area of Prospect Centre, Hull.

'An investigation is now underway and we are aware of complaints made by the man [Steve Carroll] which will be thoroughly investigated.'

The spokeswoman refused to comment further in light of the ongoing investigation.

The Stop/Search record form issued by the police states the reason for the stop as 'obtaining photos of poss [sic] sensitive material', according to a copy of the form supplied to us by the photographer.

Police did not carry out a search.

Carroll who lives in Sittingbourne, Kent had been visiting relatives in Hull at the time of the incident.

'A little while previously I had seen an inspiring selection of 'street photography' presented at Maidstone Camera Club where I have been a member for nearly 30 years,' he said.

'I decided to have a go at street photography myself and in late November purchased a Voigtländer [Bessa] R4A with 21mm lens specifically for the purpose. This is a small and fairly unobtrusive camera.'

Carroll told us it was the first time he had used the Voigtländer and had taken around 45 shots before he decided to take a break for lunch.

'At about 1.45pm, just after entering Boots store I was stopped by two police officers… They asked me to follow them back out to Prospect Street as they wanted to question me about 'the way I had been using my camera'.

Below: A copy of the form police gave to Steve Carroll, stating the reason for the stop
Police seize films from photo enthusiast

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4.0

{"commentId":1290532,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

Before anyone says anything, I have express permission from the Webmaster on whose site this appeared to reproduce it.

It is an apt follow-up to one of my earlier posts concerning the heavy handedness of police and others towards public photographers.

This person must demand that his films be returned to him, undamaged, as the police had no rights or juridisction to confiscate those films.

We must fight these situations, otherwise we will lose the age-old freedom to take photos, anywhere in public.
We cannot let this happen!

{"commentId":1290532,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

4 votes

#1 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:24 PM EST

{"commentId":1290570,"authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

Eddie French

Those keen policemen would have lots to do in Liverpool where there is a group of photographers who hang out on yoliverpool.com. They enjoy getting the best street shots. Some of the more adventurous lads go places they really should not for health and safety reasons.
Their work and tales are up for all to see so I'm not letting anything out of the bag here.

{"commentId":1290570,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

3 votes

#2 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:40 PM EST

{"commentId":1290580,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

I suspect someone must have complained; I've had people ask me not to take their photos when I'm out shooting. Sad state of affairs, I must say. He definitely should complain and get his photos back.

{"commentId":1290580,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

4 votes

#3 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:44 PM EST

{"commentId":1290605,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

He can actually demand that his property (i.e. films) be returned to him without delay or damage, because the police were technically stealing from him.
Please let me repeat again, it is NOT illegal to take photographs in a public area, and no authority has the right to tell you otherwise, let alone take your film or equipment.

My organisation, the TPUC will be trying to contact the photographer to offer him assistance and help with getting his property back should he require it.

{"commentId":1290605,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

3 votes

#4 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:53 PM EST

{"commentId":1290613,"authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

Eddie French

I will have to get back to yoliverpool.com to check this out but I seem to remember a discussion about this type of situation there.
Maybe tomorrow.

{"commentId":1290613,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

3 votes

#4.1 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:56 PM EST

{"commentId":1290624,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

Thanks Eddie, I'll look forward to it.

{"commentId":1290624,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

2 votes

#5 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:59 PM EST

{"commentId":1290640,"authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

Eddie French

No problem, I'm just a little saddle sore tonight.

{"commentId":1290640,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"eddiefrench"}

2 votes

#5.1 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:05 PM EST

{"commentId":1290739,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

I know that feeling well, Eddie. I've developed corns on my bum!

{"commentId":1290739,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

1 vote

#6 - Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:58 PM EST

{"commentId":1291986,"authorDomain":"ombra"}

ombra

Every power given them seems to lead to more abuses and less common sense.

I know photographers that were accosted at parades because to took pictures of children. Now children's looks are the best reason to take pictures at parades and it would be pretty hard to avoid them.

I know another that had his camera taken away for taking pictures in a grocery store, just looking for patterns in shopping carts.

I'm happy that I only like to take pictures of nature and "probably" can't get arrested for a picture of a tree.

{"commentId":1291986,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"ombra"}

2 votes

#7 - Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:02 AM EST

{"commentId":1292022,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

The way things are going, Ombra, I wouldn't bank on it. There you'll be, one fine day, happily wandering through the woods, camera in hand, and you see a beautiful tree that you wish to photograph. As you level your camera, and check for details, suddenly, a figure appears in the viewfinder, and walks towards you holding his hand up.
"Stop", he yells, "didn't you know that it's against the law to take photos?"
"Of TREES?", you ask, incredulously.
"Of trees, plants, people, buildings, trains, cars, boats, planes, ANYTHING! he says.

Ok. Joke and fantasy for now, but for how much longer, unless we nip this in the bud, NOW!

{"commentId":1292022,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

4 votes

#8 - Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:14 AM EST

{"commentId":1295896,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

This is a discomfiting situation. Cameras are so ubiquitous now, you never know when you'll be photographed or by whom. I've had people ask me not to photograph them when I'm not even interested in their photo, just snapping trees or flowers. It makes me sort of nervous too, to think about cameras everywhere, even tho I don't have any 'rational' reason to be so. Invasion of privacy, it feels like to me, especially when I'm in a public place. Am I alone here?

{"commentId":1295896,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

1 vote

#9 - Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:40 PM EST

{"commentId":1295953,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

As you say, Gladbutterfly, cameras are everywhere these days, I usually carry a compact digital with me besides my mobile phone that also takes pictures. Then there's CCTV everywhere, Speed cameras, nobody is immune from having their pic taken, probably several times a day.
It IS scary, but it's quite surprising how the majority of people don't seem to take any notice.
No, you're not alone in feeling like you do, but I somehow think things are going to get worse before they get better. (If they ever get better, that is).

{"commentId":1295953,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

1 vote

#10 - Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:10 PM EST

{"commentId":1342519,"authorDomain":"night-owl"}

night-owl

I really do not know what this Country is coming to!! One thing I will say is that it can no longer be termed A Free Country!! I have never read anything so petty in all my life. Don't the Police up there have anything better to do than pester innocent people taking photographs.
I have done loads of photography. I used to Freelance for The American Newspaper in the UK. You are correct in what you say Sandie. The Police had absolutely no right whatsoever to take his films. You can photograph whatever you like from a Public Highway!
Before very long we will have to have a licence for our cameras!
Doesn't this prove that we are on the verge of a 'Police State'. Its about time the people of this country fought back while they still have some rights. How can the public be so blind as to not see what is happening? People just do not have any bottle anymore! Our ancestors would be ashamed of us I think. Is this the same Land that all those soldiers fought and died for in the two world wars. Didn't they die for Freedom? It makes their death in vain!

{"commentId":1342519,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"night-owl"}

1 vote

#11 - Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:30 PM EST

{"commentId":1342541,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

Thanks for your comment, Marion. As you say, how long before we will need a camera licence?

{"commentId":1342541,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

1 vote

#12 - Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:37 PM EST

{"commentId":1390773,"authorDomain":"hewi05"}

pluckyduck

We should all complain to the authorities about all the photos taken of us by CCTV cameras in city centres. And explain that it is offensive to our civil liberty to be photographed 3000 times a day, when you are committing no offence. In effect, it is exactly the same thing. So what right do the authorities have to photograph you, and then tell you that you cant do the same thing?

{"commentId":1390773,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"hewi05"}

1 vote

#13 - Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:14 PM EST

{"commentId":1390825,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

Well spoken, Pluckyduck. Thank you for your comment.

{"commentId":1390825,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

1 vote

#13.1 - Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:29 PM EST

{"commentId":1391612,"authorDomain":"DrKnow"}

Dr Know

I noticed that the complaint was about taking pictures of "sensitive material". Sensitive in what way? If people had complained about him taking pictures of them, the complaint should say so.

I am not aware of the area he was in while taking pictures. Is there a secret government installation there? Was it sensitive because the police were doing something they did not want on media they did not control?

I will quote a favorite saying of cops everywhere, "If they are not doing anything wrong, what are they worried about?"

{"commentId":1391612,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"DrKnow"}

2 votes

#14 - Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:54 AM EST

{"commentId":1391864,"authorDomain":"seward"}

Sandie Seward

The thing is, Dr. Know, these days jumped-up little "Jobsworths" have used so-called "Terrorism" as an excuse to clamp down on a lot of different personal freedoms.

{"commentId":1391864,"threadId":"192352","contentId":"1177730","authorDomain":"seward"}

1 vote

#14.1 - Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:31 AM EST

{"canLink":false,"threadId":"192352","isPrivate":false}

SANDIE SEWARD

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